Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism)

by Frank Schaeffer

Book Overview

Frank Schaeffer has a problem with Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and the rest of the New Atheists--the self-anointed "Brights." He also has a problem with the Rick Warrens and Tim LaHayes of the... This description may be from another edition of this product.

• Format: Hardcover
• Language: English
• ISBN: 030681854X
• ISBN13: 9780306818547
• Release Date: October 2009
• Publisher: Da Capo Press
• Length: 230 Pages
• Weight: 2.20 lbs.
• Dimensions: 0.9" x 6.5" x 9.3"

Customer Reviews

And Then the Bubble Popped

I, like Frank, grew up in an evangelical minister's family. I, like Frank, saw and heard things done in the name of God that seemed not only unethical but immoral and evil. I, like Frank, spend some of my early years in Europe and developed a love of intellectual pursuits that allowed room for both faith and reason. I . . . Well, I like Frank. Sadly, many readers (particularly those who know his parents' books and teachings) will look for reasons to discount the ideas in "Patience With God." This is not a book to be held up like a battle herald for believers or atheists. It's an attempt--and a very good one--to bridge the gap between spirit and mind, between theology and science, between purpose and progression. Yes, Frank is candid about his parents' shortcomings, both domestically and spiritually, but he is equally candid about his own. He pulls no punches. He points fingers at those on both sides of the fence, but in particular those who claim to know it all--whether they be right-wing fundamentalists or the atheistic, self-proclaimed "Brights." Over the years, I've found myself struggling to reconcile the mostly good-intentioned but poor behavior of both sides. I appreciated some of Pat Robertson's early ideas, for example, but cringed when he put himself in the place of God and declared God's purposes in natural tragedy. I also appreciated Bill Maher's early years of candor and humor, but find it increasingly mean-spirited and--ironically enough--narrowminded in its accessment of religion. Do I agree with all that Frank says here? No. And he and I are fine with that. We could sit and discuss these ideas logically, even passionately, but never lose sight of our love for God, life, and each other. That's the beauty of embracing the paradoxes of which he writes. We don't all have to subscribe to one narrow brand of faith, cutting others off or discounting everything they say because of nitpicky differences over End Times theology or evolutionary theory--or whatever the argument du jour may be. Personally, I love God and believe in the Jesus of the Bible. I hate the directions American Christianity has taken, turning the "milk of the Word" into smorgasbord affairs that masquerade as nutritous spiritual meals. It seems that, in many venues, Christians choose to hunker under the "safe" and "protected" bubble of their own beliefs, rather than relating to those around them with the love that Christ personified, living "dangerous" and "prepared" lives in the trenches of the real world. "Patience With God" will challenge Christians, Muslims, and New Atheists. It will cause thinking readers to reevaluate and reconsider. It is sane and logical, while never dismissing the possibilities of faith and feelings. It accepts the concepts of a loving and gracious Jesus, while never confining Him to a particular evangelical bent. Some will find that threatening. Some will prefer to remain "safe" in their bubbles of religious or scientific thinking. Others, ho

For the believer who wishes to stay a believer.

If you are a Christian from the Fudamentalist or conservative Evangelical wing of Christianity you will love this book. In short, it will allow you to maintain your Christian beliefs without the bagage of such absurd positions. You can actually be a believer in Christ without believing those positions brought forth by these rightwinged persons who place ecomonic, political and religious beliefs in absolute terms and definitions. The book will help you escape such condemnation and illogical positions which quite frankly are not supported by Church History nor by Church Theology nor by Scripture. Buy the book and read it! Mark from Moreno Valley, ca

Patience when not many have patience

Even though I am a retired librarian who understands the necessity of due dates, such requirements have almost always put me off from checking out materials for personal use. I do it, and like for the following title I do it once in a while in order to see if the item is something I want to own. In the current case, I have already ordered the book. In what follows I will explain some of my reasons for wanting it on my shelf. (BTW, the book is due tomorrow.) Frank Schaeffer, theologically and politically astute, has bit off a huge problem - how can the majority of people in especially the Western English-speaking world understand and then respond to two vitriolic, fundamentalist, and yet opposing camps? Indeed, when confronted with either the "New Atheists" or the evangelical/fundamentalists, most of us prefer not to be associated with them. Their certainties seem to be absurdly unproven in light of their respective "scriptures," and we wonder if that may be the reason their vitriol seems to be not only exaggerated but also aimed to inflame. From p. 153 of Patience with God, comes this - "The public that evangelical/fundamentalist religion and the New Atheists cater to want to believe that there really are knives that will never need sharpening! They want that "lifetime warranty, " never mind that deep down they know that there is nothing that can hold an edge without sharpening, no matter what the theological or philosophical or scientific equivalent of the "amazing knife set offer" for "just three easy payments of only $19.95" claims. But as Darwin discovered, claims of absolute truth, without a nod to inconsistency, are made to be abandoned." One of the telling descriptions of the New Atheists is the one where Schaeffer tells of the Scarlet A lapel pin sold on Richard Dawkins' website, the purpose of which pin is to start conversations between the atheist wearing it and anyone s/he buttonholes into observing and asking about it. Hilariously, Schaeffer described his mother's gizmo to tempt passersby to ask about being saved - she used a walnut out of which she pulled a tricolored ribbon. Black came first to describe the person's soul before Jesus; red came next to describe Christ's blood shed for the person; and white followed to indicate the outcome of the person's personal encounter and acceptance (once for all) of Jesus and one's personal savior. With similar telling parallels Schaeffer proceeds through eight chapters discussing and "outing" the fundamentalists with their various certainties - Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, Rick Warren, Jerry Jenkins, and Tim LaHaye. One of my quibbles with this part of the book (even though Google is an excellent resource to find them) is the omission of citations to websites and/or books. (I guess my librarian is coming out.) I have long argued that the only difference between the fundamentalists is directional - both camps start from the same depression (that is, th

an antidote to philosophical extremism, left and right

This is truly a landmark treatise on the dangers of both aggressive atheism on the left and legalistic, Pharisaical fundamentalism on the right. The excesses and fallacies of both extremes are thoughtfully and respectfully addressed. Having been a Bob Jones University student for four difficult, painful years, I have seen the damage and dangers of the fundamentalist mindset in minuscule detail. Frank knows the motives that drive this strain of Christianity. As he so aptly dilineates, it often springs from a obession to control others, both mentally and physically, far more than any desire to model the essence and spiritual dogma of Christ. He targets with his intelligence and insight the psyche of the "leaders" of that caustic group and gives poignant relief to those who have been emotionally hurt by the fundamentalist, spiritual abuse they pass off as their brand of exclusionary purity. It is hard to describe the feelings of peace and justification I felt reading this book. He also addresses the tie between the fundamentalist and political far right. From what I observed, both in the fundamentalist church my family attended, which interestingly, had active John Birch groups in the congregation, and the philosophical, political tirades I endured at Bob Jones, I realized from a young adult that the two are locked together in a perceived battle against the "evils" of modernity and social justice. Both claim to be the sole purveyors of truth, but knowingly twist reality and facts to comply with their own prejudices and warped view of life in general. Just as deftly, Frank uncovers the intellectual drives and distortions that the aggressive atheists hide. His analysis of what drives Hitchen's tirades are carefully unveiled, revealing his annomosity has far more to do with sexual attitudes and drives, than a thoughtful, objective philosophical theory and belief. Dawkins, Rorty and other New Atheists, claiming to have total scientific clarity and reason, are shown to have other overriding biases that distort their philosophical reasoning, just as the extremists suffer from on the religious far right, albeit polar opposites in dogma. I have always felt it was sad, for instance, that a clever humorist such as Bill Mahr would sink to cheap shots, straw dog arguments, and shocking disrespect for those who hold spiritual beliefs. Some in their group would endorse the extermination of those who hold Christian beleifs, just as some paragons of viture on the religious right, have and continue to endorse the death of those with whom their have spiritual, social differences. Both extremes would eliminate the freedom of others to adopt their own right to adhere to a belief system that they, personally dislike. So much for freedom of thought! I feel anyone who has been spiritually abused by either extreme would find a rare solace in this remarkable book. I know I truly have.

A Validation of A Kinder Christian Faith

Dear Frank: I read your book. I think it is important that you know my immediate reaction. It is more important than my academic one. I devoured this book. It has been so long since I found reading material that hit my soul as this did. Your thoughts and observations have rattled around inside me in an incoherent fashion for years. Your book gave them structure and voice. But I think you would be more interested in what happened when I tried to write you an e-mail in response to your book. What a torment it is to the "detached scholar" to be set in turmoil by a mere book! Attempt One: Started writing a detached review of your book. By paragraph three I was writing about myself. Delete. Attempt Two: Decided to write a paragraph about myself to get it out of my system before reviewing your book. One hour later I have a biography, again about myself. Delete. Attempt Three: Sat in front of an empty screen trying to write. Decided not to. It would end up like attempt two. Delete Rest and Reflection: Gave manuscript to wife to read. Wife becomes hopelessly absorbed. Still is. (My wife Gwen is Roland Bainton's granddaughter) More rest and reflection. Attempt Four: Decided to write a response in a Word document. I can edit it, delete my personal biography crap, and be the nice, proper scholar Miami University trained me to be. Seven pages later, once again, primarily about me, I save it to my "Personal-Crap-No-One-Will-Ever-See-File. More Rest and Reflection. Damn you Schaeffer! And now, my blurb...or a part of it. I had to clear my mind and figure out what was going on. I originally thought that your book awakened some kind of slumbering egomaniac in me. This has never happened before. Usually when I review a book (for publication), it is a process that I completely control. Let's say its a book on the collapse of the bronze age or on Pompeii or church history or a textbook on world history. I review it, categorize its strengths and weakness, compare it to existing literature, assess its accessibility to a variety of students types, look at the resources assembled for its bibliography, judge the author's bias, and make a recommendation: to buy or not to buy (or assign). I am the detached voice. Invisible. You sure screwed up that process. What you did, Frank, is validate a part of my life I wanted desperately to forget. The pain, the struggle, the embarrassment, the utter desperation of being without a spiritual country. I saw myself. Your book was a mirror. Whether you are talking about atheists (I think you are really speaking about fundamentalists in a disarming way: targeting them by talking about something else: a parable if there ever was one!)or your own past, or the limitation of fundamentalist intellectual honesty, it comes around to the personal. This book is essentially my journey too. It is, in another form, the journey of a multitude of wounded Christians who have been divorced from the mystical, the allegorical, and the real